[00:00:12] Speaker A: Welcome to Guided Legacy, where I help make complex legal and life planning decisions feel cleaner, calmer, and more manageable for the families who need that guidance most. I'm Dionne Duckett and today we're talking about something that shapes a almost every legal decision a family makes before they ever step into an office or pick up the phone.
Trust.
When families are facing questions around aging, planning incapacity, or protecting the people they love, they are not just looking for information, they are looking for someone they can believe.
So someone who feels steady, clear and safe in a very uncertain moment.
That's why I'm so glad to welcome Marilyn Jenkins to the show.
Marilyn is a digital growth strategist and the founder of Law Marketing Zone. That's Law Marketing Zone, where she helps law firms grow through smart strategy, stronger visibility, and trust centered communication.
She also hosts the podcast Leadership in Law where she speaks with legal professionals about growth, leadership and the business of serving people. Well, Marilyn, I'm so glad you're here.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: I'm excited to be here as well. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: So when I'm facing a deeply personal legal issue, what makes me trust one attorney over another before I even make contact?
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Well, what I feel like is, is their online presence. Right. So every time we. You look for something when you're a consumer, you look online. And so the first thing I would do is, if I was an attorney, I would have my, an intro, a very warm intro, as the first thing people see on my homepage. Instead of those big images that cross the top that take up a lot of real estate, tell people what you do, who you, you know, who you serve and how you serve them. And that way they get a feel for your voice.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Oh, that's interesting. I have the big images. I have to take a good look at my site.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Well, if the, if the images say something, but it's more important, it would be better if you had like a small video on one side and maybe a contact form on the other. Use that real estate to open that conversation, you know, get started right away with, with who you are and not your credentials. That, that's the other thing that a lot of attorneys do. It's all about their credentials. People have a problem, they need it solved and they need to know that you can help them and they can trust you.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense. Makes sense. So what do you see law firms missing when they try to communicate credibility online?
[00:02:57] Speaker B: I think a lot of them are using more like, not stock imagery necessarily, but boring websites that aren't telling the story they're not talking to the clients. Client. Right. People are looking for something.
They want to know what you do, how you do it, and who you've served. And, you know, by having reviews on your website, making sure that all of that's on your Google business profile as well.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Okay, and so what do you think is the best way to communicate that video?
[00:03:28] Speaker B: As much as people don't like doing it, video is the best way to do it. You. You are going to be having a deep conversation with these people, and if they know your voice ahead of time and get a feel for who you are, that's the best way to do it.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: All right. All right. And so why is trust even more important in areas of law that touch family, aging, disability and future planning?
[00:03:54] Speaker B: The sensitivity of it. It's so personal.
I mean, yes, divorce is personal, personal injury is. But I think with this, you're also trying to take care of someone else.
And I think that makes it a bigger emotional picture.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: Okay. And I find that and what I find very interesting when it comes to planning for estate planning and legacy, people don't like to discuss the possibility of dying, even though we all know it's a part of the life cycle. So that is very sensitive.
And, you know, what signals do you think tell a potential client that this is someone who understands what my family is dealing with?
[00:04:38] Speaker B: I think reviews are a good way of doing that, as well as what we call content pieces.
So instead of like just necessarily a blog post having educational pieces that are pages on your website, your really good FAQs, that sort of thing, not only is that going to be picked up by, you know, Google and the local search engines, the AIs and all of that, it communicates wherever someone's searching for you, that these are the things that you represent, that you are, you know, comfortable working with families, that other families have worked with you, and you have experience in it and that you are a trustworthy person for them to come
[00:05:12] Speaker A: and talk to, do you think that if the attorney has experienced some of these things themselves, it's a good idea to share that on the website, or no?
[00:05:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. Because that makes it a bit of reciprocity. Right. You've been there, so clearly you can help me. And I've. I've talked to many attorneys that have had instances in their life that led them to what they're doing today. And I think that gives you credibility.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And that. That's kind of my circumstance. My father had Alzheimer's, and I'm the oldest of seven. My Youngest sister has down syndrome. And so when my dad was doing his planning, I found that the elder law attorney was very helpful and that's what led me here. And so I think what you're doing to help because I kind of created my website myself and trying to figure out what to put on it was a challenge. And so this is good information.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Well, you're communicating from the heart. People need to see what type of person you are. You know, it's not, it's just, it's so important that they understand and understand your voice and hear it and I mean everywhere online, you know that whether it's your Facebook, your LinkedIn, your website, your Google business profile.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: Okay, and so how would you say legal professionals, how can they come across as both authoritative and genuinely human?
[00:06:36] Speaker B: Well, when you're thinking about like estate planning. So back in the 80s and 90s they used to do these things called lunch and learns where they would invite people in for an educational event. Right. And they would teach them things. And so I think that builds your authority and your, you know, shows that you're a genuine human. Well, clearly we don't do that anymore. Right. Some do.
I had a client one time that in the 70s he did it or 80s he did a DVD series and use those for education.
So I think these days you could do simply webinars or additional educational videos on your website so that people see and understand what you're saying. Again, longer form content is important and for people to be able to understand. You can do, even do like Facebook events, those types of things that you can go live, talk about it, take questions, that sort of thing, show your authority and you know that you are genuinely human and using video is the best way to do that.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Okay, and do you think websites take, I mean webinars take away from from or are better or worse or the same as in person type seminars?
[00:07:50] Speaker B: Well, let's thinking about aging and what it depends on what people, you know, some people won't be able to get out to you.
I have some estate planning attorneys that actually will go to the home of potential clients because they can't necessarily get to the office. So I think webinars are a very good supplement for your website information.
And you're just, you're simply teaching, you know, and opening the door why do I need this? Is how is this important? And I think there's a lot of questions with, you know, with when it comes to aging and Alzheimer's, like you said, and care for people that can't care for themselves. There's a lot of questions around that, how best to do that to save, say, to save taxes or make sure your wishes actually get carried out.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: Okay. And so what I'm hearing you say is that the education piece helps to build that trust.
[00:08:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: And the authority.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. All right. Well, I know trust is never a small thing in legal matters and it's often very first form of service a family receives. So coming up, I want to talk about what is really happening when families search for legal help in moments of of stress and why that emotional reality changes everything about how they make decisions.
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now I want to look at what families are actually feeling when they begin searching for legal guidance. In many cases they are not searching from a place of calm. Now I want to look at what families are actually.
Sorry.
Now I want to look at what families are actually feeling when they begin searching for legal guidance.
In many cases they are not searching from a place of calm. Preparation.
They are searching while overwhelmed, worried, grieving, uncertain, or trying to make decisions quickly.
So what do you think is happening emotionally when a family starts looking for legal help around aging, incapacity or long term planning?
[00:10:44] Speaker B: I think a lot of it is, like you said, it's stressed, you know, maybe, maybe there's been a diagnosis or something like that. So there's mixed in with a bit of research about what's going on with them personally. They're figuring out, trying to figure out how to take care of their family. And I think that's where it comes into being more having more information online about your, your firm and about what you do and how you help them. And one really overlooked free resource is your Google business profile.
On that you can have videos, you can have images, you can have articles, you can have lots of additional information as well as your reviews. And I think if you, the more information you have there and that information on your website, the more congruent the message is when people are researching, you're more likely to come up when people in your area are searching for estate planning, any of that sort of thing, and the more information you have on your Google business profile will rank yours higher then a competition's not doing that. So, you know, if I'm stressed, I'm looking for something I'm going to look at the first thing that comes up and start doing. If it doesn't feel like it's giving me the answers I need, I'm going to go to the next one. So if your Google business profile, most likely it's the first place that people look and find you and that's the first thing they're looking at. You want that to be as complete a picture of you and your service as possible and your entire team, because you're probably not a solo. You probably have assistance paralegals, other people that are also interfacing with your clients. So you want, definitely want to make sure that your Google business profile puts your best step, best foot forward.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: So you should show pictures and bios of your team members as well.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:12:32] Speaker A: Okay. And what if you work with virtual assistants? I know a lot of attorneys are doing that now. Should you also include those people? People or.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: No, it's not. It wouldn't be a team photo, but yeah, you could actually do that and you can rotate them off. So even, even virtual people have, you know, just take their photo. This is. And you could just do that. You're allowed. I believe it's 15 photos and videos and I see a lot of attorneys that only put their logo up there or the front of the building. Those are very important things to have. But also pictures of yourself, a video, an intro video. That's a perfect place for an intro video.
Who you help, who you are, how you help them. Simple, 30 to 60 seconds easy. And you have opened the door to people that let them know how you sound before they even click to your website.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Okay, all right. This is good information.
And so on the virtual note, again, you know, a lot of times people are using services that are overseas. Do you think that has a positive or impact or negative impact or neutral for clients who are seeking assistance, who might see that you use overseas virtual assistance?
[00:13:46] Speaker B: I don't think that makes a difference because a lot of the times what they're looking at is they're looking at the attorney.
So I can almost say no attorney does all the work themselves. Let's be realistic.
So I think whether you're using someone that's a stay at home mom, that's working at home in the US or, or someone that's abroad. The point is, is you are the face of your firm and that needs to be the voice that we hear.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. And so how do you think stress changes the way people search, read and decide who they'll trust?
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Well, I think we're Moving into more of a skimming society, you know, instead of a reading society. I mean, look at text messages now. They don't even spell out complete words. Right? So, So I think FAQs are incredibly important. And one of the features of the Google business profile are questions and answers. And those don't have to be asked by questions or searchers. Those can be asked and answered by the firm.
So what are the top five, 10 questions that anybody that almost everyone asks? Right. Answer those on your Google business profile because these are the little things that you can do that your competition is not doing.
Then of course, have a very in depth faq. Frequently asked questions, of course, on each one of your content pieces that you're explaining or educating. So you might have one on wills and trusts, you might have one on probate, you might have one on, you know, conservatorship. Any of these different things have different ones that are more. Whichever one's most effective on that page.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: And so we talked about video.
Bless you.
We talked about video earlier.
Do you think the video, the FAQ should be video or in writing or both?
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Both. Both. Well, each video, each FAQ can be very simple. A 30 second video that would be great content for not only your Google business profile, your website and your social media.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: Okay, all right.
What information do you think helps families feel grounded right away and what tends to overwhelm them?
[00:16:00] Speaker B: I think overwhelm is a wall of text.
Right. I'm looking for answers, but I don't necessarily need to read a novel about it.
So I think the videos, you know, give you a peace of mind. Okay, I can. They'll spend two minutes watching a video instead of reading a webpage.
So what you also get the benefit of that is you get someone that Google sees that came to your website and stayed for 2 minutes, 3 minutes. That is a really, really good. It's a signal to Google and any of the search engines that send them that you have content that's relevant.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Okay, so my next question is, where do you, where do law firms unintentionally lose people during the first stage of contact?
[00:16:43] Speaker B: I think it's the not speaking to the person or the problem and then also not having any reviews.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: Okay. When you say not speaking to the person or the problem, what do you mean by that?
[00:16:56] Speaker B: Talking about your credentials.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: What's your education?
You know, that's important. But that goes on the about page, right? Not on the, the main page.
And yeah, I think that's important is because if, if people are not seeing or Getting a feel for anything of that that they need.
You're just, it's a billboard and they'll just keep. They'll drive right by.
[00:17:19] Speaker A: That makes sense. That makes sense. So what should a law firm communicate first if it wants families to feel supported instead of intimidated?
[00:17:30] Speaker B: Warmth again, I think, I think the intro video is massive to get that across of who you are, how you speak.
The FAQ videos are incredibly important as well. And those are the first two series of videos that we suggest clients do. The FAQs are just simple in that you just ask a question and then answer the question.
People don't necessarily need to know how. They need to know why, and they come to you for the how.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Okay, well, I love this. I'm taking notes.
So if for our listeners, if this conversation is making you think differently about families, find help in difficult moments, I want you to stay with us. These are the kinds of decisions that affect real people, real transitions, and real peace of mind.
Families rarely need more noise when they are under pressure. They need clarity, they need steadiness, and they need communication that lowers fear instead of increasing it.
After the break, I want to go deeper into why clear communication is not just good messaging, but but a real form of client care.
One of the things I have seen in my own work is that families are often carrying two burdens at at the same time.
The legal issue itself and the confusion that comes from not fully understanding what comes next.
That is why communication matters so much.
It does not just inform people, it steadies them.
In this segment, I want to frame communication as a part of the service, not just part of the marketing. For families navigating sensitive legal issues, clarity can reduce fear, improve decision making, and create a stronger sense of partnership.
So, Marilyn, where do you see communication becoming part of the client experience itself, not just the business strategy?
[00:19:54] Speaker B: I'm going to go back to your Google business profile and say something that a lot of people don't do, and that's replying to all of your reviews.
So Amazon has taught us to trust reviews, right? One star, five star. Read them.
What Google does is it will see that reply as what you're looking. You're speaking to your future client, right? So you've communicated in your Google business profile. You've gotten a review. Now you want to reply to that, either thanking them, accepting a problem, taking it offline, any of those things, but the way you respond to people in those reviews or for those reviews tells your future client how you work, how you communicate. So I think that is a Huge part of it. And then as well as, like I said, the videos are just incredibly important. Adding content.
But replying to reviews is going to be a massive way of getting ahead of your competition on how you speak to clients and how you reply.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: All right, and so as an attorney who may have a busy schedule, how do you suggest you manage responding to those reviews?
[00:21:07] Speaker B: I think getting reviews, asking for reviews and replying to them should be part of your systems for your entire team.
You know, when you deliver that closing case folder, you know, you got their documents ready, you should be asking for a review.
And you're going to have to ask a few times, probably maybe give them a QR code they can take a picture of and jump straight to the review and then leave that review. And then you need to have someone in your office that every 48 hours goes in and replies to the reviews.
Your Google Business profile can have team members which are called managers, and you can have them reply in your name.
Right. The reply comes as the Google Business Profile business, not as their name.
So it should be part of your team.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: Okay, all right. And so then why do potential clients disengage when the language feels too technical, too vague, or too impersonal?
[00:22:01] Speaker B: And I think that comes back down to what, where they are. Right? This is a very incredibly important thing. There's a lot of stress around it. And you're talking about the future of not just yourself, but your future of your family and maybe family members that can't take care of themselves.
You get too technical, they go blur.
You know, no one, no one's gonna. They don't need to read that. You need to talk to people like you work with them. And you get too technical, you know, if you're overly vague. No, you don't have to tell them on your website, in your content pieces how to do everything, but you need to explain why. And then maybe tax implications or benefits, any of these types of things. Talk to them like you would talk to, say, a fifth grader and explain something. I don't mean talk down to them, but you don't want to use legalese either. You know, there's a fine balance there. And, you know, content on your website, by the way, is not an opinion piece. Okay. It's educational content. Keep that in mind when you're putting that content together.
[00:22:59] Speaker A: Okay? And that makes sense, especially I think a lot of people, and it may be changing. Some have distrust of attorneys, and I know we're trying to change that. So.
So I think the technicality may make It a little bit overwhelming for them.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And my thought is not just, you know, I feel like some people feel like attorneys are unapproachable because of the education, because of the words and that, and you want to communicate that you are approachable, you know, that you do work with people and how you work with them. Because I work with a lot of attorneys and I don't know anybody that's unapproachable.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. And a lot of people haven't worked with attorneys before or may not know attorneys. And so I find that I try to make sure that I'm down to earth and approachable when I'm. And sometimes I think that even helps. I don't really suit up when I'm business casual. So what do you think about that?
Should we be more business or business casual or does it really matter?
[00:24:07] Speaker B: I think it's, I think it's, it's totally up to you. I mean, you dress to go to court, but you want to dress to be approachable. And you know, most people that go see an attorney, it's their worst day of their life, Right. So now they're, they're stressed, they're afraid, and now they have to approach someone they didn't know, didn't want to, have never heard anything great about going to an attorney. So you've got some stereotypes that you're fighting an uphill battle against.
So if coming in casual, dressed like your customers, then that's perfectly okay, you know, But I think you've got to get that across in your messaging, in your systems, within your team, your online messaging, that you are approachable, you are helpful, and these are the things that you can help with. And this is why.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. And so what does clarity look like for a law firm handling emotionally sensitive matters?
[00:25:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's interesting. You still, I think we still come down to taking the educational direction of your content again. And in this day, you have to think about it. AI is reading that as well. So when someone goes to AI or their voice agent or even Google and they type in an English language question, right. Not just a bullet point, but they asked how to or why.
If you've answered that on your website and as a question on your Google business profile, you are more likely to be mentioned in that AI response than your competition. So think about that's clarity.
You know, why do I need probate in Texas or how do I avoid probate in Texas? Whatever the normal questions are that you get ask, write those questions on your website. Exactly. In those words and, and then respond like a normal person, not a technically inclined attorney.
And you're going to get a lot more views, a lot more references, and you'll see that that'll translate into clients.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: Okay, good information.
So how can attorneys make their message simpler without stripping away the seriousness of the work?
[00:26:16] Speaker B: I think one of the things you did, you're talking about you're going business casual. I've got clients that, that do not wear, I've got clients that do wear a three piece suit and a tie when they do their videos.
Most attorneys don't. They will, you know, drop the tie. They sit there like they're talking to you. And I think that's the thing is you can be professional and still be serious and still get the point across without being untouchable.
[00:26:44] Speaker A: All right.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: And so that's the approachability thing we talked about. You want to be someone that people can communicate with and understand. She gets me, right. She gets what I'm going through.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: And I see different things happen. When I first started this practice, one of my friends from high school brought her mother to do her planning and didn't know, and her mother didn't know why she was there. And then her mother was so nervous and I was nervous myself. She knew me as a little kid and I had to perform. And that's what I said to her. I said, Mrs. Smith, you can't be nervous. I'm nervous. You're Sharon's mom. So.
And I think that might have helped a little bit, but absolutely.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Common ground.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: I mean, it's, it's, you know, my grandma used to say there's no substitute for manners. You know, it's just, it comes to kindness.
You know, I think that has a lot to do with it. And you know, you're, you're not, you're not going to strip away seriousness, but you know, just being a kind person will get that across.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: All right, and then, so what is the, the human and business cost when communication is unclear?
[00:28:02] Speaker B: A lot of money.
I mean, people are going to end up getting not necessarily as good of an attorney as you because they didn't get your message. You know, I know a lot of attorneys that are absolutely fabulous at what they do. They are some of the best in their community, but no one knows that because they're not putting that out on the Internet. They're not putting it on their website.
So the cost to the human is that client went somewhere and did not necessarily get as good a service as you could provide them. The cost to Your business is cases, revenue growth.
So, you know, what is it going to cost you an hour to sit down and record maybe five FAQ videos? And if you say, and that's okay, humans do that, you know, these days, we can cut that out. But it doesn't matter. If you're answering a question and you say, leave it alone, it shows you're human. And it. It just brings that communication. They're like, okay, that person's not AI they really actually recorded that.
And it makes you, again, more approachable and knowledgeable.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: All right, I like that. And so does that also translate into not? So I hear some people saying that you can record the video clips on your cell phone or you can, you know, go outside. Is. Do you think that's okay? It doesn't have to be professionally manufactured video clip girl.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: We have all of our phones have 4K cameras on them now, right? And you can get, for like, 20 bucks on Amazon, you can get a little desktop tripod with that ring light. So your lighting is good. Do that. Sit at your desk and talk. Yeah, absolutely. You don't need big equipment. You can. You could hire somebody, spend a few thousand bucks and get a. Get some videos made. But if you can bring, say, two or three different shirts into the office, sit there with your camera on a tripod with the light on, and record. Now do an FAQ video. Do your intro video. Now go change your shirt. Let's do another one. We call that batching content.
So prepare to take a morning, and you could get a month's worth of content. You could get a massive amount of content done in literally a morning.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Okay, Good ideas, good thoughts. All right, so when communication is clear, families do not just understand more. They breathe differently, they ask better questions, they make stronger decisions.
And so in our final segment, I want to shift the leadership side of this confirmation and explore what law firm leaders need to build if they want trust, growth, and service to last.
Welcome back to Guided Legacy.
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now, we've been talking a lot with Marilyn Jenkins about leadership and communicating with clients through technology.
To close, I want to widen the lens. This is not only about websites, messaging, or visibility. It is also about leadership. The way a law firm is led affects the way clients are treated, the way trust is sustained, and the Kind of legacy that the firm leaves in the lives of the families it serves.
So, Marilyn, from your conversation on leadership in the law, what patterns do you see in the firms that lead well in and grow? Well,
[00:32:19] Speaker B: it comes down to systems and processes and delegation. Those are the big things. So we, as entrepreneurs, a lot of the times we don't like to delegate because I can do it faster. Right. That doesn't give. That doesn't empower your team. It also doesn't give you time to serve more clients. So I think what I see is when it comes to leadership in the attorneys that I've interviewed, and I've done some great interviews on leadership and law and with larger firms as well as smaller firms that are growing, and it comes down to creating processes that everybody understands that have the client interest first and then put those into place. You've got your systems and your processes and your company culture. You know, you as the attorney, the founding attorney, even if you're a solo, right now, you're the founding attorney. It is your job to set your company culture. How do you want to approach your clients? How do you want people communicating with them? What's the first thing they see when they come in the office? So you start that, and then that goes down and grows with you, with your team, and then everybody's on the same page. And again, if one person isn't on the same page and never gets on that page, fire quickly.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: Okay, I like what you said. And I think the challenge, being a small solo myself, as far as being an attorney, is stepping back.
There's a process to be able to delegate.
Okay, and so how do you.
And if you've gotten a little bit busy, you've got to find the time take and figure out how to delegate it to the person. And I think that's how we fall into that trap of just doing it ourselves. And so how would you suggest we. We deal with that?
[00:34:08] Speaker B: Well, I. If you've never read the book, buy back your time. It's an amazing book.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:34:12] Speaker B: Okay. It breaks it down to. And if you can sit down and say, so you're busy.
[00:34:17] Speaker A: Right.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: Maybe make a list of everything you did today. Do that for two or three days. What on that list do you just not like doing?
There's somebody in this world that you can pay less than you're. You're valued at that, loves doing that.
So take that off your plate. How many times did you check your email today?
Do you need to be checking your email, or can somebody else handle that for you?
So those are the things to start with. What do you not need to be doing? So we want a dollar cost average our value per hour, right.
So if you're billing out x hundred dollars an hour, there's somebody that could work for say $25 an hour to take that away from you and give you that time back.
So that's again, that's part of those systems and processes. And then you build your culture and then culture comes in. You get an a player that loves doing admin stuff and you hate doing admin stuff because you'd rather do law stuff. That's a win win all around.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. And finding, finding the right people, like you said, if they're not on the same page, fire fast.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Exactly. Fire slow. Fire fast. Exactly. And as you grow your team, you have a culture already established. That person has to fit right into the culture.
Otherwise, you know, how much time do you give them? Because if they're a bad apple, they're going to just spoil the whole barrel. And that's why we fire fast.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: And what do you think is the best way when you're hiring someone to figure out whether they'll fit into the culture?
[00:35:49] Speaker B: That's a hard one. I mean because you know, but if you're, okay, you're estate planning and you know the types of people you're working with, it would be questions around those types of people because if you find someone that say they don't enjoy working with older people, then that's not somebody you want on your team or even anywhere near your team.
Right.
So you know, if you're in a divorce attorney and you are looking to hire someone that hates children, well, how many times are children involved in divorce? So you got to think about that. So you know, know it's, it's a bit of finesse, of chatting and I know there's certain questions you can't ask but you know, you can certainly get a feel for how they, they like types of people that you work with. And will they be client facing or will they be in the back office doing filing? That's the other question.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: And what are your thoughts on having the team involved on in the hiring process, your current team?
[00:36:42] Speaker B: I personally, when I was looking for, I haven't worked for anyone in, since I was 25. But at the time I would have been completely intimidated and I don't know that I would have done it. It's now having your office manager or maybe the person they would report to, I think that's valid. But having a hiring by committee I don't think is you will get the best of that person, the best view of that person, because they're going to be on guard and wondering, okay, where's the pitfall here?
[00:37:08] Speaker A: Okay, okay, that makes sense.
So what separates firms that are merely busy from firms that are building something sustainable?
[00:37:20] Speaker B: Preparing to hire.
So I have a philosophy that if I have a position that gets to 80% capacity, they're pushing 70% capacity. I need a new person on staff by 80% so they have that next 20% capacity to train.
So you're never, you don't ever have anyone at fully 100% capacity. So pre planning your hiring to make sure that you can continue to give outstanding world class service to your clients and not overworking your people.
So it is a bit of a balance, especially when you start talking about the cost of hiring another person, but at the same time you're expanding that capacity. How many more cases can you handle because you hired ahead of time, but not dramatically ahead of time. You're not taking on payroll just to take on payroll for in case that big case happens. Right. You know, so it's, that's, that's my thought is get prepared to hire as you need them and give them time to train. So then they're positioned to also be a team that provides world class service.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: That makes so much sense because I've often had, when I, when I hire my team or hire a new person, the first week or two, they may not have anything to do because I don't have time to train them. And so what you said about 80%, you know, being able to having team members who can train the next person when they get busy, you know, that they're not too busy to be able to train. That makes a lot of sense.
[00:38:54] Speaker B: Yeah, because you don't want a new person sitting at their desk and you've just wasted two weeks of payroll, but you forgot to give them work to do because you didn't have time.
[00:39:01] Speaker A: Exactly right, Exactly.
[00:39:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: And so my next question is, how does leadership inside a law firm shape the experience clients have outside of it?
[00:39:14] Speaker B: I think in law firms it's kind of one of the unique industries in the US in that mentorship is part of it.
It's part of the culture of a law firm. And I think people feel that when they come in, they feel not only that team, but, but they feel like, okay, there's shared knowledge here. That's not a competition. And I think by just following the instincts of attorneys, you know, mentoring each other, helping each Other what you're getting is they're. Everybody's going to feel that team player kind of atmosphere when they come into your firm, and that's going to make them want to work with you more and refer you.
[00:39:53] Speaker A: Okay, all right. And so, so here's another question. Where do firm owners struggle most when they try to balance growth with meaningful service?
[00:40:06] Speaker B: I think it's when they're. I. My thought would be is they're hiring too late, right? So they want to grow. But again, like you said, you. You hire too late. So now I can't really bring that new member up to speed because I'm too busy doing the. Doing the stuff.
So I think planning. We plan everything in business, right? We try to. And we should try to plan better for hiring. And that way, because you're servicing clients and they're going to see that and that no one's rushed. No one's got a stack of stuff on their desk. No one's just, you know, stressed out to the, to the max. Everybody's doing their part.
[00:40:42] Speaker A: All right. All right, so I have one last question for you, and that question is, what does sustainable success look like for a legal practice that wants both impact and longevity culture?
[00:40:56] Speaker B: And I know that's a vague answer, but I think it's the culture. You know, we talk about processes and systems in place just to make sure that everybody's doing the right and the same type of service. But it's people buying into the culture that you want your clients to see. You know, we're all team players. These are the things we do. We do charity events periodically. You know, whatever it is that your culture is, you want to make sure that everybody is on the same page with that. And clients and prospective clients are going to pick up on that. And it'll be in all your. It will rotate through all of your communication online and with clients.
[00:41:34] Speaker A: Okay, well, Marilyn, you've shared a lot of important information with us today, and I think the listeners and viewers will find very valuable. So if viewers want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to contact you?
[00:41:51] Speaker B: The best way is visit my
[email protected] all right.
[00:41:56] Speaker A: And that's lawmarketingzone.com yes, ma'.
[00:42:00] Speaker B: Am.
[00:42:00] Speaker A: All right, well, I appreciate your being here with us today.
I hope this conversation encourages listeners and viewers to think not only about legal services, but also the kind of guidance families truly need when life feels uncertain. And if you're a professional serving families in vulnerable seasons, I hope it reminds you that trust, clarity and leadership are part of the legacy you leave.
Marilyn, thank you for bringing such valuable insight to this conversation.
What stands out to me is the way that.
Let me try that again.
Marilyn, thank you for bringing such valuable insight to this conversation. What stands out to me is that the way people find legal help matters almost as much as the legal help itself.
Trust has to be earned, communication has to be clear, and leadership has to be strong enough to support families when they need it most.
This has been guided legacy. And I'm Dionne Duckett. Thank you for joining me as we continue helping families protect what matters. Plan with confidence and create with legacies. And create legacies rooted in care.
Thank you for being with us today.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: Marilyn, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
